In a new episode of the Financial Planning Podcast, Kent Manderville talks about making the switch from professional athlete to financial planner and which gig is tougher.
Manderville, director of
But throughout his career on the ice, Manderville always had a passion for money management. He earned a finance degree from Cornell University, and after retiring from the NHL in 2007, he earned both his CFP and CFA designations.
That passion took root at a young age when he witnessed how sound financial planning played a pivotal role in his family’s ability to carry on following the death of his father when Manderville was just 8 years old. It burned hotter during his pro career as the complexities of a professional athlete’s finances became crystal clear.
At IP Private Wealth, Manderville helps players still navigating those complexities make sense of it all while working to ensure that they have a plan in place when the time comes to step away from the game.
During his conversation with FP Podcast host and lead editorial producer
Listen to the new episode — as well as all future and past episodes — by subscribing to the FP Podcast on
Transcription:
Justin L. Mack: (
Good morning. Good afternoon. And good evening. Welcome to the Financial Planning Podcast. I am your host, Justin L. Mack reporter with Financial Planning, and it is my absolute pleasure to welcome today's guest to the show, Kent Manderville of IP private wealth. Kent, thanks so much for taking the time to hang out with me today.
Kent Manderville: (
Thanks lot for having me appreciate it. Looking forward to it.
Justin L. Mack: (
Absolutely. Now Kent is a CFP and a CFA who serves as director of IP, private welts hockey family office. And he's the perfect man for the job. Why is that? Because before becoming a full-time financial pro, he was a professional athlete playing more than 700 games in the NHL during a career that started back in 1989, when he was drafted by the Calgary flames, because of that, he knows the complexity of a professional athlete's finances better than anyone. And that made clear the importance of comprehensive financial planning and wealth management. So he joined IP private wealth to help other athletes optimize their finances and navigate those complexities. But passion for finance didn't start when he stopped playing it actually dates back to his younger years as well. And we're gonna get into all of that with Kent on today's episode of the financial planning podcast and Kent, let's just dive right in. I gotta ask you one question that I've thought about since we first had a chance to kind of meet digitally and talk a little bit, what's harder being a hockey player or a financial advisor.
Kent Manderville: (
You know what, that's a great question, actually, because they both have their, uh, challenges for sure. I, I view it as, uh, what I love the most is I say financial planning and doing what I'm doing is the second best job. I mean, I don't think you can get, you can replace being an NHL player or professional athlete. So that's, uh, they both have their own challenges, no question staying there. And the grind of being a professional athlete is challenging, but it's also very fulfilling. It's a lot of fun. Uh, you're obviously tested all the time and on the wealth management side, what I love about it is, is really helping others who have, you know, they're starting their journey through the air pro careers. So that's incredibly fulfilling for me. So, and it is a bit of a grind too. You don't have that feedback from fans or, or the media or for coaches as, uh, as, as quick as you would with the pros. So I think, uh, they're both, uh, they're both challenging in their own ways.
Justin L. Mack: (
Absolutely. And I always wonder how much the drive, the dedication that I know was required to play at the professional level aids you in your job as a financial planner and doing wealth management, because so much of it, as you kind of mentioned is reliant on the efforts you put in. You know, what you get out of this profession is, you know what you're gonna get out of it. And same, like being a professional athlete, if you don't play hard, you're not gonna get out what you're seeking to achieve. And for a guy like my, myself who on the athletic side has always been much of a weekend warrior, didn't have the dedication to ever approach it, doing it, something like the level you did. So how much does that drive help you? And do you still feel like, you know, you apply some of what you did as a player to what you're doing as a planner?
Kent Manderville: (
Well, absolutely. That's, it's been really helpful. And I think the biggest challenge, not only for myself, but for any professional athlete is really to use those tools that they honed in their professional sports career. And how do you transition? How do you, cause you have to change them, right? It's obviously not apples to apples. So I think when you, the, the biggest difference, I think for sure is the day to day grind of being a professional athlete, but you get that feedback, you get immediate feedback and then you, you readjust, right? So in an 82 game schedule, you're gonna get those, you break it down to segments and, and you really want to go, you know, how do we do tonight? Oh, you need to fix this up. No next day we're gonna re you know, go through that again, on the, on the financial planning side, it's such a long timeframe. So you, what I've learned is you really have to manufacture these segments, these periods to make sure you stay focused, because it is easy to lose your focus. You don't have that playoff drive. You don't have that can chip run. And so you really have to create your own segments and really be mindful with how you're spending your time and what you're spending your time on.
Justin L. Mack: (
Mm-hmm that individual goal setting it sounds like is, is really, really important, especially if you're gonna do it and, and work with the segment of clients that you do, which I'm really excited to get into. But let's talk a little a bit about where your passion for finance or just the financial world in general started. Was it something that, that only happened when you were done playing, or did you always have an interest in financial work or just finance in general?
Kent Manderville: (
It was something that I, I would give my credit to my mom, quite frankly, cuz she, she was a widow at age 38. She raised three kids and, and by virtue of her financial decisions with my dad, having enough life insurance for, for one that really enabled me to play competitive hockey growing up and, and we weren't as affected financially as we really could have been. So I think my mom being a single parent was always very open with, you know, on a financial friend. I went to Cornell university. I received not a scholarship cuz Ivy's, don't give a scholarship but financial aid. So I was always aware of finances and how they all fit. So when I signed my contract, I was already thinking about, okay, how do I take care of this? How do I manage this? How do I make this last? And I remember my signing bonus. My very first signing bonus was for $150,000. And yet I get a check for 93,000. So here's $57,000 gone and you learn very quickly about taxes and I'm like, I never made 50 to $7,000, let alone paid $57,000 in taxes. But that really set the foundation for me to really get into the opportunity to make the most of what I was making as a professional athlete.
Justin L. Mack: (
Absolutely. And it sounds like that was something you were mindful of throughout your career. Um, what kind of things did you kind of do to, to manage your own money? Did you have a financial planner when you were playing or is that something you kind of handled yourself? How did you navigate that? And uh, when you were all wrapped up, were you happy that you approached things the way you did?
Kent Manderville: (
Yeah. Great question. So when I first started and, and I say that I went to Cornell, I was a business major. I left after two, two years to play in the Olympics for team Canada. But I mean, I really didn't know anything about taxes and about insurance. And so I relied upon my very first advisor was actually my player agent at the time. And I, it, I, I asked a lot of questions and it wasn't a good experience. I was sold the universal life insurance policy. That was completely inappropriate at the time. For me, it turned out to be fine because I played 16 years of pro, but I really learned a lesson right away. But I had the fortitude that I actually fired him quite early. And I'm glad I did. I went to another person, uh, big bank in Canada, wonderful guy. But I was asking him always like, what, what book should I be reading?
Kent Manderville: (
What, what should I be looking at? And eventually I left him because there was not the value for the price that, that I was paying. And quite frankly, back then, especially in Canada, it was a black box as far as fees. What were you paying? It was mutual funds. They were deferred sales charges, the whole nine yards. So it was really about educating myself and asking. And then the internet really was a huge resources as you got through the nineties, uh, learning about, uh, you know, John Bogel and Vanguard group and, and really taking it upon myself to learn as much as I could. But there were so many things I didn't know. Um, I, I think I mentioned in the past, uh, on a, on, on the website where I had a teammate in Carolina who died and you know, there would been not really that much estate planning, you know, we think, especially as a professional athlete, you're gonna live forever, but there's other things that I had no clue about. That's what I really focused on after I retired as a player to really focus on those things that guys right now have no clue about. So it's about educating them and really making sure to cover those gaps for them.
Justin L. Mack: (
Absolutely. And, and to an extent, even as a player, you were being a planner, it was your own finances, but you were learning a lot of stuff up that, that people don't have to learn until unfortunately it might be too late or you're confronted with something you've never seen before. And, and you were working on that continually and asking those questions, which I'm sure was, uh, at times it would be frustrating for the people you were firing the questions at, because they've gotta come up with the answers, uh, when you did finish your playing career and how soon did you know, all right. Something I want to do. And did you immediately think you wanted to be a planner or did you maybe think another aspect of finance would've been right for you?
Kent Manderville: (
Well, actually it's funny cuz my last year, um, so during my professional career, I was a player rep uh, in the union. So it's funny we talk about this now because baseball's going through their lockout right now. So boy, I know. So as a player rep, I, I, you know, learned the union business. We went through a lockout myself and the NHL really painful, but I was very interested in, in the topic, right? Like labor negotiations and how it affected professional athletes. So I, I, I actually got accepted the law school, uh, right after I was finished playing. And I was thinking about that. But then I had to make, when the rubber hits the road, I had to make a distinction between finding something interesting and finding something that really suits my temperament. And I'm not a confrontational person. And I know with labor negotiations, that's all it is. And so I, I really deviated. I really had to take some time to reflect on really look inside myself and what I wanted to do. And I'm so happy. I chose the pass path I chose because my wife is a lawyer. She went back to work when I was retired. And that's when I did the CFP and the CFA and really dedicated myself to learning as much as I could for the ultimate benefit of my clients.
Justin L. Mack: (
Absolutely. And working as a player rep again, before you fully made that transition, uh, officially, did you get encouragement from your peers, other players who said, Hey man, uh, well, you should do this. I appreciate what you've done for me. Cuz I imagine as an extent to doing that kind of work, you, you get really into the nitty gritty with these guys who are your, you know, contemporaries and at, at times your competition, but you learn about what they're going through on a deeper level. What was that like? Did they give you any kind of reinforcement to really go after it when you were done playing?
Kent Manderville: (
Not, not so much because I think we're in the moment, right? You're not your, your long term high time horizon is like too hours or, you know, when the next negotiating deadline is. And, and here's the, the, the truth. A lot of times nobody wants to be the player rep, right? Because they're, it's, it's a bit of a thankless job, but I'm so happy. I went through it. I did it when I was in Toronto playing for the maple Leafs. We had a lockout and we had Mike Gartner and Ken Baumgartner were how I up in the union, in the negotiating committee. So, you know, I, I didn't have as much to do as a player rep, but I'm in a big market. So fielding those questions from the media having to think on my toes. But I think the guys did appreciate it as far as players. I tell you what, when you're losing a lot of money and you're near the end of your career and you're probably not gonna reup that money, you pay attention. And at first some guys were blase about it, but when they started losing real dollars, uh, they paid attention. And I just had a wonderful experience with the guys on my team. They were very appreciative for sure.
Justin L. Mack: (
Awesome. Awesome to hear. Now you are listening to the financial planning podcasts. We're here today with our, our guest Kent Manderville director of IP, private Wells hockey family office, and former NHL player. We're gonna take a quick break, enjoy a word from our sponsors. And we are back on the financial planning podcast. I am your host, Justin Mack, and I'm chatting now with Kent Manderville director of IP, private Wells hockey family office, and former NHL player with more than 700 games under his belt. And a lot of great stories, which we're gonna get into some of today. Now, Kent getting back into it. One thing I wanted to talk to you about is something you talk about a both when you're, you know, on your website, when you're talking to clients, it's just the complexity of a professional athlete's finances. And I can't even begin to imagine, um, a journalist finances, not quite as complex uh, but tell me a little bit about what some of those complexities are. And I guess some of the, some of the stuff you learned kind of on the job as a player, we talked how you kind of kept a close eye on your own finances and kind of were doing work as a planner just to navigate your own career. What were some of the surprises or things you weren't really ready for as a player when you started earning this kind of money?
Kent Manderville: (
I think the big thing like I alluded to before was taxes really? And, and the surprise. I mean, you always know that there's taxes, but when actually see how much comes out of your paycheck and especially in Canada, the tax rate in Canada, in Ontario, in particular, I'm in Ottawa, Ontario, it's 53.53, that's the top marginal rate. And it kicks in at about 220,000 Canadians. So call it about 180,000 us. So the tax fr the tax bracket are, are higher. The, the tax rates are much higher. So that's what I learned big time is when you realize, when you go to a different jurisdiction by trade or by signing as a free agent, you really see the distinction and the difference between tax brackets, but also on the planning side. There's great opportunities in Canada. There's a, uh, there's a, a vehicle called the retirement compensation arrangement in RCA that a lot of players don't know about.
Kent Manderville: (
So we educate players about that. They're very beneficial for players, but it requires planning a lot of advisors focus just on the investments. I look at a professional athlete, we're looking at foreign exchange, multiple time tax jurisdictions, also on the state side, uh, asset protection, uh, it just, you know, insurance, there's so many aspects to it and then guess what they go from North Carolina to California or British Columbia or Quebec. And it just, it really requires staying up on top of things on a lot of different levels and a lot of different jurisdictions too. That's the biggest challenge really is the jurisdictional differences on taxes, even cost of living. It's crazy the difference between living in Columbus versus living in, you know, Anaheim. Um, so we really try and educate our players. That's a huge part of what we do. And then we get better buy-in we get better responsiveness and they're actually very proactive. So it's been wonderful.
Justin L. Mack: (
Awesome. Awesome. And then something that I've always been interested in is how difficult is it or how important is it for long-term planning, especially as an athlete, when you can plan for the future as best as you can, but you also know that the nature of the business means that the future can change just like that one, play one outing, one piece of bad news, and all of a sudden your long-term plans are very, very different. Tell me what's that like, if you, you ever had to, to confront anything like that, either personally or with a client, what is that like and how do you make sense of that and how do you even plan for the future?
Kent Manderville: (
Yeah, that's a good question. So I think personally, for sure, I went through that. I had an injury and I broke a bone in my wrist called theca and I didn't even know what the heck ACA was and it almost ended my career. They basically had to do a own graft for me and that resuscitated my career and it enabled me to play another nine years or so. So with that planning, you always know in the back of your head, and I find our clients really understand that they know that there's an end, but it's almost like saying, you know, we're all sitting here. We know we're gonna die everybody at some point, but it's not something that we're fixated on on a day to day basis or an hourly basis. So what my job is really we discuss about, okay, what is it gonna be like when you make the transition?
Kent Manderville: (
And we start those conversations early. So we wanna get them in a, in a place on a, on a, on a financial, for sure. Understanding, okay, you're gonna have this income cliff going forward, but emotionally, what's that gonna be like? So a lot of guys are on short term deals. You get the, you know, some guys are signing four or five, six years deals, but a lot of guys are on one or two year deals. So that planning it necessitates having more liquidity than normally that you would say, oh, a 26 year old, 90% equities, don't worry about it. So there's nuances like that. Like we have to be really mindful. You have to know what the cash flows are. It's very, a lot of cashflow flow planning, seeing where the money's going and having them being mindful once you have that. But I gotta say, there's only so much you can do with talking about to a, a guy who's younger and say, oh, you know, the transition's coming.
Kent Manderville: (
It's gonna, I've lived it. I find they get it, but they don't get it. And there's only one way you can do it is once you go through it, you're like, now I understand. So we bring it up as a conversation and it's almost like kind of arrows bouncing off, uh, a shield may, maybe they don't penetrate through right away. But we find when we hit it, we wanna make sure that they're at least there financially and then the emotional and the psychological. And it's not just the player. It's, it's the whole family, you know, relationships with your spouse, even with your kids, your place in the community. It's really important. So we're there to have those conversations as well.
Justin L. Mack: (
Kent Manderville: (
Yeah. I think that like exactly what you said, it's not even with professional athletes. I mean, just with general, uh, people just emotionally and psych logically and COVID is just, you know, amped it up times a lot. So, but one benefit that I find just because of my background, I know what it's like to get traded. I know what it's like to get sent down. I know what it's like to be a healthy scratch. I know what it's like to be in the playoffs and, and, you know, I've been through all these day different circumstances. And so when you talk to these guys, it's like, you know, I'm not saying, oh, well, in my time, back in my day , but it's more of just being able to listen to them and get them, you know, their, it might be their frustration. So we're gonna talk about cash flows, but they're, you know, they've been a healthy scratch or they're off the powerplay unit or whatever. And you just, you you're there just to listen. But I think with my experience of having been there done that really gives me that conceptual framework in order to relate better to them because let's face it, they're younger, you know, I'm older, I played back in the day, but there's some things that are never change and they're timeless. And those that emotional factor is Def a piece of that.
Justin L. Mack: (
And, and how much do you think maybe awareness, uh, of finances has changed since when you were a new player breaking into the league? Because the other thing that has changed over time is just accessibility to information. And that also not unique to financial athletes. We're seeing a lot of folks who maybe haven't worked with financial planner or advisor ever before, but when they start that relationship, they might know a little bit more or they think they know a little bit more because of the internet, because of Twitter advice, because of whatever. Are you seeing more guys who are new or younger who might be a little more aware or know a little bit more than maybe, you know, 20, 30 years ago? Or is it still the same? And people don't know. They just think they do.
Kent Manderville: (
Oh, it's actually a good question. Because when, when I think about it, you gotta, you gotta understand the, the framework here too. Right? So, because I, I remember when I was, you know, growing up and oh, 0.1% of all players actually go on to pick professionally and, and, you know, you get told that, you know, in my mind, I I'm that 0.1%, like I'm the I'm gonna do it. And, and then when you do it and you have, you are that 0.1% mm-hmm , it gives you a little bit of, I'm gonna say overconfidence mm-hmm in other areas, right? Like, so you're like, yeah, Hey, I made it, I can do this. So, so there's that element, but I don't find that a huge, huge, it's still a, a little bit there with some guys, but I find you hear all these stories about, oh, this guy lost this money, this lost, oh, you know, how could these guys be so stupid?
Kent Manderville: (
My clients are the most, they, they really get it. They wanna learn it. And, and I think the biggest word it boils down to is trust when they trust you. And they're like, okay, I got it. Hey, and I tell 'em, Hey, anything, you hear this? Let's talk about it. So it's like, Bitcoin, what's Bitcoin. Like, how does it fit? No, I totally get that. So when they're hearing in the dressing room or from buddies, yeah. I bought this and they, you know, buddies that aren't playing professional sports. They might put in a thousand and, and my player can put in a hundred thousand, you gotta have those conversations because it's all proportionate. Right. So it's you, what I find is they're very aware, uh, a lot of information out there, but there's a lot of garbage out there too. And so it comes back to educating them, but I find them, they wanna learn, they are asking good questions. They're not just a set it and forget it. And I know there's a percentage of guys that are like that. I don't wanna work with them. I'm not here to babysit. So it's, it's a really good mix where they, they come with really good questions, but they wanna learn much like with their hockey. Right. You wanna get better. This is the same thing.
Justin L. Mack: (
Definitely. Definitely. And then last thing I'd love to talk to you about a little bit is just kind of, what do you see as, you know, achieving the success you set out to achieve when you made this transition? I guess what's been the most rewarding thing. And I don't know if you even have it fully formed in your mind, because as a player, there's the goals you want to achieve. I wanna do this. I wanna do that as a planner. What are some of the goals you want to hit? Do you think you've hit any of those or are you really just focused on, Hey, every day serving clients to the best that I can not thinking about that end goal necessarily quite yet.
Kent Manderville: (
That's a good point because I think that's what forced me as a hockey player. You can just show up at the rank. You, you know, you do your thing, you play your 82 games, it's rinse repeat. There's definitely a cycle in the hockey season and in your career, quite frankly. And even when I played, I played over in Europe for four years and I think it was like, maybe I shouldn't have spent four years over there. It was wonderful experience, but I was so used to that routine as a planner. There's the distinction that I've learned is there's the business. And then there's the serving your clients. I've really actually enjoyed the business aspect to it. Like where are we going as a firm? We're an independent firm in Canada. So in the us, the RIA model is, uh, is obviously much more prevalent than in Canada in Canada.
Kent Manderville: (
We don't really have that independent model that's as well established in the marketplace. So personally, absolutely serve our clients, do the best job we can for our clients. But professionally, when I'm looking bigger picture and macro picture, I'm thinking there's a lot more that we D do not only with serving more clients, but, uh, better service offerings, uh, you know, and having broader cross border services, because there's all these areas that I really think that are underserved as much as we do now, whether it's educating players, they don't even have to be clients, you know, running, running those kinds just to kind of help as many guys as possible. That's, that's eventually where I want to go. Cuz what I got into this, this business was really to help people. The more people I help, the better it becomes not only for, but for their families and it just spreads from there. Justin L. Mack: (
Kent Manderville: (
Yeah. You just need a Google it or hockey family office. We're part of IP, private wealth. It's integrated planning, private wealth. So we're the sports wealth division of IP, private wealth, but we're hockey family office. They can Google it, look us up and reach out anybody listening, love to chat.
Justin L. Mack: (
All right. Awesome. And I want to thank everyone for tuning in to the financial planning podcast. This episode was produced by Verizon with audio by Kellie Malone. Special thanks again to our guest Kent Manderville of IP private wealth rate us, review us and subscribe to our content at www.financial-planning.com/subscribe. From financial planning. I'm Justin Mack. Thanks for listening.