At a time in which advisor shortages are colliding with the transfer of trillions of dollars to younger generations of investors, the competition for talent has never been stronger. How are wirehouses and other large firms fending off the lure of their competitors and independent opportunities to keep top employees on their own books?
Transcription:
Transcripts are generated using a combination of speech recognition software and human transcribers, and may contain errors. Please check the corresponding audio for the authoritative record.
Cat Auer (00:09):
Hello, and thanks so much for joining us today. I'm Cat Auer, the managing editor of Financial Planning Magazine. Welcome to our Leaders Forum, where we invite executives and thought leaders to share their experience and expertise on the most important topics in the industry today. As the intro said, should you have any questions as our discussion progresses, please submit them and we'll do our best to get to them.
Our topic this afternoon is
Welcome, Amanda. Thanks for being with us. Before we dive in, do you mind giving us a little bit more on your background?
Amanda Dolan (01:06):
Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for having me today, Kat, and for the opportunity. But I have been at RBC for 14 years, so my whole post college career, I started actually in one of our branch offices, so I started working for a financial advisor team as a client associate or on their support staff. And then I'm from Minneapolis where RBC Wealth Management headquarters are. So as I moved back, I've had a number of roles in corporate and home office, but I have spent the last three years in recruiting as head of recruiting and the year before that as the onboarding manager. So the fun part of helping manage the transitions and bringing advisors and their books of business and clients over as seamlessly as possible.
Cat Auer (01:50):
Nice. Well, like I said, the perfect guest for us today on this topic. A major trend that we've done so much reporting on at Financial Planning is advisors who are looking for independence. So if you don't mind, let's talk broadly about the current state of advisor recruitment and retention at large firms and warehouses.
Can you tell us, what are you seeing right now in that landscape in general?
Amanda Dolan (02:13):
Yeah, absolutely. We're still seeing quite a bit of movement across, whether it's a wirehouse or a regional firm. Definitely still high volumes of movement. And one thing that is definitely clear through conversations we're having is that fas financial advisors have a strong entrepreneurial spirit. They want the flexibility and the autonomy to run their business as they see fit and they want to be seen as a partner. So a couple of things that RBC has done or where we've seen a lot of success is our firm has 2,200 advisors. So we have the ability to know everybody personally still. So we've got the resources, the capabilities, the technology, but we still have that human component that we find really important to our, so we've seen through conversations definitely still movement.
And again, it's table stakes these days to have the technology and the capabilities for clients, but what I think a lot of people are looking for when they're looking at independence or when they're just looking to make a move is they want to not be seen as just a number.
So wanting to feel like they still have that connection to their field leader, so their branch manager in their office, all the way to having relationships with corporate and home office partners. So that's all about the culture. And I think something we do really well here is knowing their name, not just an employee number, wanting to learn about their business and then find ways to help them gain efficiencies, grow help in whichever way we can. So we know the answer can't always be yes. I mean that would be perfect if we could say yes to everything that somebody wants, but I think the important part is making sure that the advisor or their team is heard and that we're going back and coming back with a reason. If it can't be done, it can't be done, but why? So again, I think across the landscape we're still seeing a lot of movement and what they're looking for is a home of best fit, where the clients first and that they still have leaders locally that have autonomy and can make decisions.
Cat Auer (04:18):
All right. And how many advisors are at RBC?
Amanda Dolan (04:22):
Twenty-two hundred.
Cat Auer (04:23):
Twenty-two hundred — that's a lot. Okay. Well, one other trend we've seen for sure is that the attrition rate for newbie advisors is extremely rough. In general, something like 70% or more of first year financial advisors wash out, and that's significant for a lot of reasons, including because we are seeing the average age of advisors creep up With all those impending retirements, there's a talent shortage out there. What do you think is causing that washout in your opinion, and what steps can be taken that, how can we change that?
Amanda Dolan (05:00):
Yeah, absolutely. I think that the environment of the industry is just a lot different than it used to be. So young advisors, whether it's fresh out of college, they're no longer making cold calls to build their book from scratch. There's not the trust and level of experience there. It's a fast-paced ever-changing industry, and we're not seeing the same success with advisors that go through it, aspiring advisors that go through a trainee program and are trying to do it on their own as a solo practitioner. So of course we still have people that are coming in interested whether it's right out of college or they're interested in still being a solo practitioner, but we're seeing a lot more success with people coming in that are looking to join a team. So something we definitely encourage here and work on partnering, but also we're seeing a lot of second career advisors to come through our training program.
So I'll use an example from one of our Colorado offices. There was someone we hired over the past year who had spent 15 years in the nonprofit world, so they have the right attributes and the right connections to be a really successful financial advisor. So going through our associate financial advisor training program was just a natural fit. They had the connection to the community, they have that network of people, and it was a really smooth transition. So I'd say seeing people coming through the program that are going to join teams or a lot of these, we're seeing a lot more of these second career advisors coming in a little bit later and that have a large network already.
Cat Auer (06:31):
Nice. I think that there's still sort of a possibly outdated impression that large brokers remain an eat-what-you-kill, sink-or-swim type environment. Maybe that's true. There's certainly going to be pressure to perform and to produce. But do you see that kind of environment as changing and if so, how?
Amanda Dolan (06:56):
Yeah, I do not think or believe that we have the sink-or-swim mentality at RBC, at least. And I think it is changing.
We know we want to be a high-performing group and culture, and we are here, but we need as a home office to provide advisors with the resources and support to be successful. So I know I touched on that a a programs, our associate financial advisor program, and I think one of the biggest changes that we made a few years ago is that it's really personalized. So we're meeting our leaders that run that program, that overhauled it. It's meeting that potential advisor coming through the program at where they are in their career. So it might not be right out of college, it might be someone that worked as a planning associate on a team or that came from a banking side that they might not be at the ground level.
And so we do a lot of personalized coaching. So we do the peer groups, the cohorts, helping them prep for exams and getting licensed and bringing them into Minneapolis to our home office to meet corporate partners and to have a week of learning and meeting the other participants in the program. But we do that ongoing coaching afterwards with a specific person. So they have a coach for two years after that that works with them and again, meets them where they're at in their career and what they need to be successful. At RBC, we also have what we call a G2 summit. So that is a conference that is specifically for our next gen advisors. I believe we're on our third year of running those G2 summits. And that provides a really nice forum and sense of community for our young advisors that are new to the industry to meet one another and share ideas. So that we've gotten great feedback about that program. And I went this year for the first time, and it was just awesome to see everybody sharing ideas and well after they leave the conference, there could be someone in California meeting someone in Boston, but they keep that connection. And now with video conferencing and IMing over teams, they can share ideas and ask questions. And so I think those have been a couple of resources or tools that we provide to not have that sink or swim mentality and provide a community.
Cat Auer (09:15):
And it sounds like you have a nice level of support for young professionals.
Amanda Dolan (09:20):
Yeah. Actually one thing that I'll add just when you said young professionals is we have an employee resource group at RBC that is for young professionals that are in our home office. So our advisors definitely feel the benefit of having a strong cohort of young capable people in the home office as well. So they feel that support in the field. It's important for us to retain that talent internally because then we're having, well-rounded people that have background and experience at RBC that are then supporting advisors in the field, and I think they feel that partnership. So it's somebody that they can get to know and work with for years to come. And I think it's really important that they know this is their firm, they're the future of the firm, and partnering with people that are helping support their clients is very important.
Cat Auer (10:11):
Nice. Yeah, affinity groups can be such a huge thing in the culture of a firm. And that leads to another question.
It's no secret that diversity and wealth management is a super stubborn issue, has been for a long time. How can that be changed and how can a firm signal to potential advisors or to potential career changers that they are a good destination?
Amanda Dolan (10:40):
I'm very passionate about this topic because you're right. I mean, it's no secret that there is a gap in significant underrepresentation of bipoc and women in this industry or in the financial advisor world. And it can't change overnight. We know that, but it can change. So what we've done at RBC, we've made a very concerted effort over the past few years to invest in how we can change that and how we can move forward because it's not just about hiring diverse candidates or bringing diverse backgrounds into the financial advisor program, but it's how do we support them and make them want to stay in the industry, make them feel like they belong and have a community. So I'll go over three different areas. So one I think I have mentioned is our wealth planning associate program. So this is a home office corporate role that brings in, and it doesn't have to be a young person, anybody that's looking to get into the industry specifically with diverse backgrounds that we can bring in and support through getting their CFP.
(11:44):
So these roles actually sit amongst our branches across the country, and they get to meet with all sorts of financial advisor teams that run different businesses. They get involved in client meetings, they really help with the financial planning aspect. And we've seen about a two year runway where they transition into actually joining a team as a financial advisor. So they get to develop those relationships with advisors in the market that they live in, and they start to get to know the client base through helping with the financial planning aspect. And it's a really natural transition into a team. It's funny, there's always multiple teams vying for the wealth planning associate in their territory because obviously they know the technology, they have the planning background, which is so important these days, and it's been really successful. We've seen very successful financial advisors come from this program.
(12:39):
So I think that's been key for us. We also have a lot of partnerships with bipoc and diversity focused organizations, whether we have someone from our executive committee on the board or financial advisors, more grassroots. But one that comes to mind that I'm pretty involved in is our Quad a partnership. So that is a really cool organization for African-American advisors. So it's the Association of African-American Advisors Quad A for short if you're not familiar with it. But RBC has been a big sponsor of the Quad a conference, the annual conference they have. And we not only send people to attend and financial advisors to attend, but we've had people on panels, we've had main stage speakers. We send our leadership there, so our complex directors around the country so they can make connections and grow a pipeline too for people that would be good fits at RBC.
(13:35):
And that's just one of many examples that we do in that space. And then our WAFA program, so that is our Women's Association of Financial Advisors, and really proud to say that that's been established at RBC as an official employee resource group for 33 years. So it was one of the first in the industry, and it's a really strong collaborative supportive group. We have an annual conference every year in different locations, but where all of the advisors come in and they have an awesome three day conference to share ideas, support each other. They've been very successful in bringing in other women onto their teams and just kind of showing them the path at RBC. And it's a really cool group. I love being a part of it, and it's kind of dovetailed into our, we love acronyms, so Women's Association of Financial Advisors we call wafa.
(14:30):
So we've started a WAFA ambassador program, and that is specifically when we are talking to teams across the country that are not at RBC and are interested, we have a group of what we call wafa ambassadors that are happy to, they love talking to potential recruits that are interested in a career at RBC, and it's so much more powerful to hear from somebody that's been in their seat before. So we've had very good feedback on that where we can partner someone interested with one of our WAFA ambassadors and we're not part of the conversation so they can hear directly from them the resources we have here, how they're supported and what the WAFA community can do for them.
Cat Auer (15:11):
That sounds like a pretty remarkable kind of organic tool for recruiting a lot. What kind of feedback have you gotten from people who participate in these programs?
Amanda Dolan (15:22):
Always that we can tell them the recruiting team leadership. I mean, you can tell them what our culture is, you can tell them what it's like, but this allows them to see it firsthand. So having that conversation from somebody that went through it. And it's not somebody that necessarily made a move to RBC. It could be someone, some of our wafa ambassadors have been advisors here for 20 years, 30 years, so they can hear different perspectives. Some have come over in the last five years that are part of this program, but I think it's the power of not just hearing it from someone like me, but actually getting to see it and hear it in a real conversation with another financial advisor.
Cat Auer (16:00):
Nice. Well, we've talked a bit today about attracting individual advisors and nurturing young talent and career changers, but what about established or big teams, teams with big books of business? What is bringing them to the table? What have you seen?
Amanda Dolan (16:18):
Yeah, I think every team, not just, but especially these large and sophisticated teams, they're all different. They all have unique needs. So we spend a lot of time talking about what matters to them during this process. So we not only personalize the support if they were going to come over, but as we're having those conversations, what is their business? Who would they want to hear from? What gap are they looking to close? We always say, it's not what you're leaving, it's what you're coming to. So we always try to highlight how we can support what our differentiators are in our eyes to come to RBC and be successful. So we want them to be additive to our culture and good fits, but we in turn, I mean, we want to be additive to them. We want them to grow. We want it to be the right choice for their clients.
(17:06):
So we do a lot. We do, is it best for the client? Is it right for the client? Is it right for the fa? Is it right for RBC in that order is kind of how our top-down leadership likes to make decisions and think about things. So I think that's been huge for us. Attracting these top teams or being in conversations with, and I said it earlier, I think the technology, the capabilities are table stakes now. They need these tools and resources to service their clients. And so the differentiator, I think, in what a lot of people are looking for is access to leadership, to flat leadership where decisions can be made quickly. So that's a lot of the conversations I guess that we're involved in now. And then just like the Wafa Ambassador program, people like to hear from other advisors, other teams that have recently made moves. So that's something that we commonly do too. It can be completely anonymous or it can be someone across the country that they're talking to that maybe came from a similar firm, but just I find it very impactful for them to hear directly from somebody that made the move and what it was like. So I think making sure that we can showcase why we're the best home of fit for them, how we're going to support them in making a move, and then letting them hear directly from a peer.
Cat Auer (18:24):
Sure. And you just mentioned tech as table stakes for attracting the right kind of talent, and I know you have a bit of a background in tech. So in today's environment where tech is evolving so rapidly and there are so many different options and there's AI and this and there's that, how do you stay on top? How does the firm stay on top of offering the best, most attractive, most useful tech?
Amanda Dolan (18:50):
Yeah, I did, and you touched on it, but I spent six years in our technology and training group, so it's very, something I am also very passionate about is our technology and making sure that we are arming our advisors and their teams with the best for them to service their clients and efficiently do their jobs. And I think one thing we did is we don't build things necessarily in-house, finding the best FinTech partner and making sure that we are providing them with what they need to service clients. And so we started our transformation over five years ago now. We did a really big complete overhaul, and we use Salesforce as our advisor desktop, and it's nimble. It allows us to be agile, and that is what we've kind of bolted everything onto. So we call it our advisor desktop Salesforce. So that was a project that I got to be a part of, but we were able to build and roll out to all 2200 advisors and their teams a version of Salesforce within 12 months.
(19:51):
And we can continually build upon that. And I think that's what's key. If you build something in house and you need to make a change, it can take a lot longer to update. When we partner with someone like a Salesforce, we always have the best next upgrade available to us, or if we are constantly gathering feedback from our advisors and we do a monthly release. So it's not something that once a year we're making a change. We have monthly releases and we can build things and we listen to the feedback and we act on it, and that's what allows us to do that.
Cat Auer (20:30):
Yeah, I imagine that staying on top of tech today is a 24 7 job, and just a little plug for Financial Planning, aside from the recruitment topic. One of our reporters, Dan Shaw, just had an article recently about how RBC is using AI to sort of look on the internet and let advisors know when they need to reach out to clients. So go to
Amanda Dolan (21:01):
Say that that has been a very exciting new AI feature that we've been using. But I'll say everything that we do from a tech perspective is to empower the advisor client relationship. So we're not trying to get in the middle of it or replace anything. It's just how can we make the financial advisor or their support staff, their client associate, how can we make their day easier? How can we make them more efficient while doing what's best for the client? So that you're exactly right in that article. We're really targeting money in motion. How can an event happens in a client's life? How can we empower an advisor to reach out and have that conversation with a client at the right time? So I think that's also, I'm glad you said that. I think that's a really important piece is that it isn't to disintermediate the client advisor relationship, it's to actually make it stronger and empower it.
Cat Auer (21:55):
Yeah, the tech stack and service of the advisor and the client relationship, it's great. I wanted to circle back really quick to something we spoke about at the very beginning of the conversation, which was the attrition problem. Some of that may come down to the characteristics that you talked about that make a good financial advisor make a good broker. What do you think those characteristics are?
Amanda Dolan (22:24):
I think it's that innate drive. So you have to be a driven person to be a financial advisor. You have to put your clients first. You want to do what's best for the client, but you come in every day, you're your own boss. So we can provide as a firm the tools and the resources to help you do it, but it's the advisor's relationship with the client. So it's growing a book of business, it's gaining the trust of your clients and keeping the trust of your clients. So I think that's probably the most important attribute is just to have that drive and have that drive to do what's best for the client.
Cat Auer (23:05):
Yeah, from my outsider's perspective, it seems like it's not for the week. You've got to really be interested in that. In terms of, you've been in this for a while and I think you've kind of touched on a couple things in the talk so far today, but do you have, as a recruiter, any cheat codes, any industry tricks to successfully land advisors that you could share with our audience?
Amanda Dolan (23:33):
I, I'll tell you, being transparent and truthful all the way through. So advisors, they appreciate that and they can see through it. If you're not, is that that they're very intuitive and that's what they do all day is work with people. And that's the vested advisors. They have very strong relationships with their clients. So I think it's important to sometimes in those conversations it's reminding you're not going to the exact same firm making a move. There is going to be some differences. So we put a lot of emphasis in preparing ahead of time, doing all the due diligence we can, the information we are allowed to converse about, to make sure that it is the right decision. If we don't have something on our platform, it's to tell them as soon as possible in the conversation of this is how it would look here. So we do a lot of consulting ahead of time to make sure it is the best fit.
(24:28):
We don't want someone to move here and not be successful or it's not the best fit for their clients. So I would say that's my cheat code would be just to make sure the transparency is there, going to make, it might not be the right fit for somebody and maybe it will be down the line, but they're going to remember that you had that conversation and that you were open and honest with where you're at. And I know I talked about our technology transformation that we started over five years ago and have completed now. It was a multi-year transformation that we did, and there were plenty of people that we had talked to where we just weren't quite there yet with something on our platform that did come back around or once we finished that transformation and we were able to show them, and it went a very long way and saying, wow, you said you guys were going to do this in two years and you did. And they came back around and we've hired people from that, but it just wasn't the right time or we weren't where we were. So I think being transparent.
Cat Auer (25:30):
Well, and also it sounds like there is no real cheat code because behind all your cheat codes was a lot of hard work. We mentioned some trends already. We've got breaking away to independence. We've got of course the impending attrition rates, but we also touched on teaming, and I think that's another sort of newish big thing. Is teaming going to be more and more on your radar or are you going to be expanding that?
Amanda Dolan (26:02):
Absolutely. We actually have an entire group around teaming, so teams, consultants that are of no charge to our advisors. It's a service that if they want to use or consult with, they absolutely can. So it's part of our practice management group, and they'll do everything from an advisor who is looking to, whether it's someone on their support staff or they're looking for another advisor to join the team. They're growing rapidly or they're looking at a retirement date and looking for a succession plan. But they can work with our teams consultants to, they'll do everything from a personality assessment to see where the gaps are on the current team. You should really have someone that is strong in this area. That could be a gap that they're looking for. So we definitely encourage teaming. I think clients too really like to see a whole team behind who they're working with.
(26:52):
So I think different ages, different demographics. It's really helpful for a client to see that it's not just one person that there's a well-rounded team that's taking care of them. So teaming absolutely is something that we're going to see more of and something we do a lot of already at RBC, and we love to have cohorts of groups and peer sharing. We do a team summit every year, so every year we invite a number of our teams and we kind of rotate through, but to a conference at a location, and we do breakouts for the senior advisor and a junior advisor, and then the support staff where they get to just meet with their peers. There's large group sessions where they get to hear best practices from other teams. So definitely something that we'll see continue to grow, but something that we do well here and support already.
Cat Auer (27:41):
It seems like such a smart idea too, in terms of succession planning. Well, it looks like we are running up against the clock, but I think we've had a wonderful session and have learned a lot folks out there. If you're still interested in the topic, be sure to check out our reporting on
Amanda Dolan (28:11):
Thank you, KA.
