Integrated Partners founder Paul Saganey will discuss how partnerships — particularly those between financial advisors and CPAs — can benefit firms and clients in a time of hypercompetition in the wealth management industry.
Brian Wallheimer (00:10):
Well, good afternoon and welcome to Leaders, Arizent's forum with thought leaders in the business world. I'm Brian Walheimer, editor in chief of Financial Planning, and today I'm talking with Paul Saganey, president and founder of Integrated Financial Partners, a fee-based financial services firm that, among other things, builds partnerships between financial advisors and accountants. Paul's a CFP, has been a financial advisor for more than 30 years, and coaches and trains advisors at his firm. We're going to talk about that advisor-accounting model today with Paul and Paul, I'll turn it over to you to say hello and get us started.
Paul Saganey (00:43):
Yeah, Brian, thank you so much for those watching. Our firm has been working with accounting firms now for 28 years, and so this is certainly one of the foundational programs that we have built to help our financial advisors get in front of wealthier clients and business owners. So happy to share what we're doing.
Brian Wallheimer (01:02):
Yeah. So Paul, can you just kind of discuss the basics of how these partnerships with accountants and accounting firms work? How do they come about and what are some of the benefits of creating these?
Paul Saganey (01:13):
Well, I think to take the benefits first, and so typically advisors who are in our firm already have a fairly successful financial planning practice, and so they've got the revenues to kind of keep their practice afloat, but they desire to maybe double or triple their assets in revenue, Brian. So what we do is we present a program by working with accountants where we can get in front of the wealthiest clients that a CPA has — so their business owners, their highest income and net worth clients. So it's a program that advisors love because once again, it helps them get in front of the types of clients they maybe cannot find on their own. And the way the program works is basically we match up one advisor with one CPA firm. And so that becomes, if you will, the lead advisor. But I want to be clear that each advisor is a little bit different, Brian.
(02:02):
So in other words, some advisors that are going into our accounting firms only want to work with certain types of clients. Let's say it's only retirees or businesses that want to sell in the next five years. And so we're very careful when we kind of match up that one advisor to one CPA firm that this advisor has teams of other advisors there to support maybe the clients they either don't want to work with or if that advisor gets over their head and say, works with the kind of client that they're typically not used to working with, we can support them from our family office services at the ultra high net worth level to our business planning services, our business consulting retirees, whatever's out there, we want to support that advisor. But basically Brian, it's a one-to-one relationship, advisor to CPA with this advisor having access to what we call the extent of capabilities they need to make that relationship work to their advantage.
Brian Wallheimer (02:57):
And now there's obvious benefits for the advisor, right? You're trying to get access to high net worth, ultra high net worth clients. What's the benefit for the CPAs? Why are they interested in this partnership?
Paul Saganey (03:09):
Yeah. Well, I think if you talk to most CPA firms right now, and certainly it's about the client. And so most accounting firms from our largest firms that have over 50 partners to our sole practitioners, CPAs, it's all about what doing what's best for their client. And so therefore, these are typically accountants that have had lifelong relationships with their clients. They recognize that nine times out of 10, their clients maybe don't have their financial affairs put together the way they think they should. And so I think if we start first and foremost by recognizing it's about helping that CPA, as we say, be a hero to their clients and help their solve more of the problems their clients are facing. If you kind of lead with that approach, then certainly the CPA is more apt to open up more of their opportunities to us as financial advisors.
(03:58):
But I think first and foremost, it is about doing what's best for the client. And then certainly there's a revenue component to it as well. So our typical program, we do revenue share with the CPA firm, Brian. So there is some kind of revenue share based on the work we are doing, be it the fees we charge for planning or maybe managing the assets. And so for many of our accounting firms, what we have helped them build, which is a financial services division of their accounting firm, is many times actually worth more than the accounting firm itself. So this is a very successful program that's really worked very well for the CPAs that are part of it.
Brian Wallheimer (04:35):
Sure, sure. We talked about advisors are looking to, you know, say double and triple the amounts, the assets they're managing. Talk about some of the challenges that outside of a model like this, what are some of the challenges for attaining those goals and how do advisors then get access to these clients otherwise? And just kind of transition into how your program works and why you see it as a benefit.
Paul Saganey (05:08):
Well, I think for that question, there's probably three words we use all the time. And one is what's the vision? In other words, what do you have as the vision as the advisor to work with this accountant? And then as you asked earlier, what's the accountant's vision for what they want to do with the advisor? So making sure that the visions are aligned. Then we use the words capability and reach. So it's about visions, capabilities, and reach. And so the biggest thing is making sure that we're on the same page as the CPA in terms of what they do or don't want us to do. And so for the advisor, what we use Brian, is a formula we call six times 10 plus one. And what that simply means, and to your viewers here, if you can just in your own minds, what's the average client you work with today in terms of their net worth?
(05:53):
Maybe it's a million, 2 million, whatever it may be. When what we do with the CPA firms and our advisors is set the stage to work with six more clients that are 10 times larger than the typical client the advisor works with today. So take that. Let's say it's about a million dollar average net worth client. You work with the CPA program in terms of the advisor's vision is about working with 10 more clients that have a net worth, say an excess of 10 million. The plus one, by the way, is simply plugging into the formula. What's the single largest client you as an advisor have ever worked with in your career? And so maybe it's somebody who won a lottery, sold a business, maybe it's a widow, widower. We want to also let that accounting firm know that you have a particular expertise on what we call your plus ones, because if you can keep replicating those plus ones over and over again, plus the six times 10, you can see that very quickly an advisor, he or she can maybe not double, but can certainly add a lot more assets to their practice.
(06:49):
And I would say, Brian, if I could add, these are assets that are typically, we call it the complexity curve. So as you're finding these wealthier clients, they are financially more complex, but then their personal lives are more complex, children getting married, having grandkids, maybe not all the kids are very good with money and the transfer of wealth. And so therefore when we work up this complexity curve, we're able to charge larger fees, certainly get access to wealthy and wealthier clients for wealth management services. But these clients remain very sticky. I mean, I think everyone watching knows that as people's lives continue to get more complex in two different ways, the desire or the need to work with people like us gets greater and greater. So it's about that vision to make sure the vision is really clear about what you're looking for as an advisor, and then matching that with the vision of the CPA. And as long as though two, those are both aligned, the results are spectacular for the advisor,
Brian Wallheimer (07:45):
It sounds simple. Go find a CPA that's willing to work with you and grab their best clients. A great model. Are there challenges, well, before I ask the challenges, how do you choose a cpa? How do you choose a firm when you want to bring them into this model?
Paul Saganey (08:01):
Yeah, it's kind of a long process. So we've got 174 accounting firms now as part of our program, we're trying to grow it to 500 firms. And so maybe as we talk back and forth here, the accounting community is such that the opportunities for people like us and people watching in the next five or 10 years are unbelievable, better than I've ever seen before. So therefore we want to drive from 170 ish to that 500 number. But I think it goes back to those three words of vision, capabilities and reach. And so it's not quite as simple as just finding a CPA and going in there and working with them. The challenge that we have as advisors is that these CPAs have been approached numerous times by numerous financial planning firms, including their best friend they golf with or the big wirehouse down the street.
(08:47):
And so please know that you're not the first time they've heard about this, and they're not new to this whole process. So therefore you got to make sure they're aligned. And then also, Brian, when we line up these advisors with our CPA firms, we want to make sure that the advisor can handle the types of clients that the CPA has as their core client base. In other words, does this CPA firm have a lot of business owners? Are these businesses that'll be selling in the next five or 10 years? Do they have billionaire type clients? In other words, we want to get our fingers around what is the actual clientele of the CPA firm and then match the advisor that way. One thing to share with you, Brian, though, when an advisor goes into these firms, because I mentioned those words of vision capabilities and reach, we as a firm provide the capabilities.
(09:33):
So if our advisors get in over their head and maybe get in front of clients who typically are not used to dealing with, that's our responsibility as a firm is we've got these support teams around ultrahigh net worth to high net worth business owner solutions and retirees. And so for the viewers here watching, you want to make sure that when you walk in the door to talk to these CPAs, you want to work with that you have what we call your capabilities team already put together. In other words, the death of the program is if the CPA puts you in front of a client and maybe it's above your capabilities and therefore it doesn't go great, you'll never see another client again, especially a client that looks like that. So therefore that capabilities part is so important that you want to make sure you've got your capabilities team wrapped around your vision for what you want to do in that particular accounting firm.
(10:23):
So for us to answer your question, Brian, so making sure we're matching the vision of the CPA with the vision of the advisor, making sure that based on the types of clients that CPA has, the capabilities team is there in place to make sure we can deliver on the promises. And then the last piece too, Brian, the word "reaches" is segmenting the clientele of the CPA. So we do segment them up into different buckets. Once again, ultrahigh net worth, high net worth businesses and retirees. And then we market to those segments, in other words, so we actually put all of the names of these clients in some very simple data regarding the clients into our marketing databases, and then we drip on them very professionally, and we do it as if it's coming from the accounting firm or this new wealth management division the accounting firm has built. And so therefore, this client of the CPA is getting dripped on very professionally. They understand the problems that the CPA can now solve for them, and then when they raise their hand, it's typically a very nice engagement.
Brian Wallheimer (11:21):
Yeah, we're talking about very wealthy clients for these CPAs. They probably already have a wealth management professional, they're probably working with someone. What's the sell to them and why do they want to change? Why do they, where's sort of the value proposition for them in being part of this?
Paul Saganey (11:40):
Yeah, that's been my entire career going back to when I was doing estate planning for the wirehouse community. It's every single time I or my advisors walk into a client opportunity to a complexity to a client. Yeah, they've got numerous advisors from attorneys, financial planners, insurance people. And so typically for us, our job is to get in there, Brian, and take a thousand foot view of everything that the client is doing. And what we're looking for is coordination gaps. In other words, we want to find areas where there's say a lack of coordination between all the different advisors. And I know your viewers have seen this particular talk and the circles and things like that. But once again, as you get people that are more complex both financially and personally, and you look down at what they're doing, we're always going to find areas that we can bring value to the table.
(12:31):
It wouldn't also be uncommon. So we use the phrase too, Brian, when we work with an accounting firm, we want to be a guest in their house. In other words, we're not there to knock people away and badmouth anybody. So there are many times we'll actually reach out to that advisor and say, Hey, we're noticing some things going on here. Your client really values you in their life. Why don't we work together to bring the best possible solutions to the table? And in that whole world of collaboration, in other words, we'll collaborate with an advisor if the client likes that individual or maybe that advisor didn't have access to the capabilities to put the perfect plan together, if you will. So we'll once again, try to work together to make that happen. So it's not about how do we knock people out or how do we come in there and just change everything? It's how do we make that client so that when they have a phone call with the CPA, after the process is complete, say, thank you. I appreciate you making this introduction. We feel so much better off today than we were yesterday. And that's our responsibility as a guest in their house to make sure that those clients do call back and say, wow, what you did was really pretty powerful.
Brian Wallheimer (13:35):
Sure. We've got a few questions that have come in. I think there's a couple of them that are probably now's a good time to ask, so I'm going to throw 'em in. One of 'em is who should be included in the capabilities team when you talked about having that team together before you ever go into those meetings, who's involved in that?
Paul Saganey (13:52):
Great question. So the first meeting you have with a CPA is always walking in the door and not saying, this is what we can do for you, and this is what our firm does. It's trying to really do what we call a fact finder on the CPA. So we're all used to doing fact finders on our clients. It's a very similar approach to doing a fact finder on the CPA firm. Tell us your challenges. What does your retirement plan look like? How are valuations in the accounting community? You want to know all these questions in the first meeting and really get a good feel for where that CPA, he or she feels that maybe their practice is lacking in services. So after the first meeting, the second meeting is the capabilities meeting. It could be a face-to-face or a Zoom call, but that's where you want to bring in your team.
(14:36):
So what you want to try and learn in the first meeting is what does the average client look like in the accounting firm? Do they have businesses that maybe want to sell the next handful of years? Do they have access to billionaires? What does their reach look like inside the firm? And then when you have that second meeting, the key thing, and this is I always urge people and we coach our firm in our firm all the time, you want to get away from this is what we do, we do this, we do that, we do this, we do that, and really focus on the problems that those clients are facing. So what are the five or 10 problems a business owner that wants to sell in the next five or 10 years may be, or what do retirees face now for challenges? So when you're on the capabilities meeting, it should be about the problems your clients are dealing with. Inherent in that message is the fact that we're sitting there talking about the problem.
(15:26):
So therefore we would be the professionals to help solve those challenges. And so it's a little not, I don't want to call it a dance, but it certainly is a very important meeting because we set the stage during that second meeting because we're trying to increase that accountant's confidence in our ability to make them look really good to their clients. And so when you have that capabilities meeting, it's you the advisor, bringing in the different capabilities that you have, introducing them, talking about the problems clients are facing today, and then kind of what you're doing now, let them ask all the questions so you can kind of at that point begin to maybe illustrate what your planning services are all about.
Brian Wallheimer (16:03):
Sure. Another question from our audience is what are the terms of the relationship for an advisor with Integrated Partners? The cost revenue sharing?
Paul Saganey (16:13):
So the revenue sharing, it depends on how many individuals are involved in the particular case, but we do a revenue share with the CPAs. These are anywhere from say 70/30 to 80/20 revenue shares. Each firm's a little bit different in the complexity of the client and how many specialists have to be involved because you are sharing revenue amongst a number of different people. But the revenue share is such that we do share the revenue. Say it's 70,/30, 30% of the CPA. And the way we look at it, Brian, is this, that's revenue the accounting firm actually owns. And so in other words, that has a value to it. And so a number of our CPAs, once again, the revenue we've helped them build is worth more than their accounting practice, and a number of them are generating on their 30% north of a one to 2 million of revenue for the firm itself.
(17:01):
Once again. So the other part of our program is the CPA always owns the client, so that's a given. However, we share the ownership of the revenue. So therefore, in a revenue sharing model, what that means is for most of our advisors as these CPAs go to retire, our advisors are buying that revenue stream back from the CP at some point in the future. And once again, they're buying clients they already know, but is a revenue share somewhere around 70/30 is how it works different than a lot of firms. We do once again, give ownership in the revenue that the CPA is building so they know at some point in the future they're building something that they can actually sell back to us and once again, just respecting their position as the most trusted advisor for the clients.
Brian Wallheimer (17:44):
Sure. One more from the audience for a second, and it's how do you plug in tax expertise into this equation? Tax planning specifically?
Paul Saganey (17:58):
The one part about the program that works over and over again, especially as you work with wealthier clients is we are always finding new accounting engagements for the CPA firm. And we track that by the way. So at the end of every year, not only are they making revenue from the work that we are doing, but the work we're doing, especially with their complex clients as resulting from more accounting work going back to them. So we don't typically step in the way of doing the tax work for the CPA. We do use different industry software out there to help us diagnose tax returns and maybe help us find and the CPA, find opportunities where we can bring some value to the table. But once again, these are CPAs that typically don't want us to step in front of them as tax experts if I'm hopefully answering the question correctly for the viewer there. But there is many times that the CPA, he or she may come across an opportunity or a client that's beyond their capabilities. So we'll bring in another CPA from our network of 170 and make sure once again, we're doing the best job for the client. So hope that answers the question right there for you.
Brian Wallheimer (19:01):
Sure, sure. There's a follow up on that question about the partnerships and the relationship and the revenue and it's, is there a difference between, is there a difference difference? We're talking about an ria.
Paul Saganey (19:13):
Yeah, I'm sorry. These are RIAs. So these are typically depending on the state, these are typically solicitor relationships fully disclosed to the client. We even have an additional contract that the client understands there was a revenue share going on. But these are state specific rules. But typically most states allow us to have the CPA be a solicitor under the model of an RIA, and then we can share revenue with that particular accountant.
Brian Wallheimer (19:37):
Okay. Let's see here. Let's talk about technology a little bit. People are looking increasingly to AI to find clients. We talked about this you and I the other day, and using AI to work with clients help decrease the time it takes to find the clients to do their jobs. Where does this model fit into that ecosystem?
Paul Saganey (19:59):
Yeah, I think as it pertains to technology, typically we're trying to work with the type of client that wants that face-to-face or Zoom to face interaction. But I do think there are various technology or pieces of software out there to help, once again, diagnose the tax returns. So how much is someone giving to charities? Are they filing a gift tax return, the relationship of interest, dividends and capital gains? So there are different pieces of software out there, Brian, that will help diagnose the tax return and help advisors look for these planning opportunities. Once again, what the problems the clients face that we can approach them with. But the other technology that we use a lot would be the marketing company that we have built. It's, we call it InTouch Innovations. It's a separate company, but we spend a lot of money to build these marketing databases.
(20:46):
So when we work with a, say a CPA firm of a thousand clients, we can once again break them up and then begin to email them, invite them to webinars, and very professionally let them know that the accounting firm now has these additional services. If I think if there was one piece of technology, if I were out there talking to the viewers, I would tap into, it's any technology that helps you get your message out there more effectively to the clients of the CPA because then they'll raise their hand and they'll say, Hey, can I meet with you? Or can you help solve this problem? Or more specifically, when the client comes in to do their taxes, let's say at the beginning of the year and they're hearing from you week by week, month by month, it may prompt a conversation with the CPA and that client to say, Hey, I've been getting your information.
(21:32):
Can I talk to the advisor and get some help here? So I think if I were to look at any piece of technology out there from Snappy Krakens of the world, and I know there's a million different marketing databases like we use, it's just having a team to put together really professional pieces, never talking about what you can do, but the problems these people are facing and how this new enterprise that has been put together at the CPA firm can help solve those problems. And you'll get people raising their hand weekly. We send these out weekly, Brian, so we have a weekly, a weekly email that goes out the door. Some are more about the problems they face, some is a bit of a market update, some is a little bit lighthearted information about what's going on in the accounting world with the tax world in general. So now we're doing a lot more work as well around the estate tax changes that are coming in the future here with the sun setting provisions and the fact that it seems like every congressional leader is trying to tax more of the wealthy individuals, be they business owners or wealthy people. So therefore, I would say in the next five years, especially getting your capabilities really tight around tax planning, I see the tax planning side, especially estate tax planning being a giant lift for our organization in the next five to 10 years especially.
Brian Wallheimer (22:47):
Sure. Paul, the title of this is Making a Case for Wealth Management Accounting Partnerships In a Tough Economy, the Economy is no secret, been difficult, the markets are volatile. Is there anything about where we are right now that makes these partnerships especially interesting, or how can you tie this into the times we're living in?
Paul Saganey (23:14):
Yeah, the tougher, the better. Not to be a jerk about this, but we saw giant bumps with the tech bubble, the bank collapsed even through covid. We saw significant increases in the introductions because think about it, the client is going to say to their CPA, oh man, my investments or this or that are a little bit nervous about my future. And that opens the door for the CPA to say, well, why don't you sit down with so-and-so and spend 20 minutes with them? But I think I, I've said to this, to everyone when I make these presentations, I think the next to 10 years certainly for us will be the best five to 10 years ever because of the fact that the population is aging. Those baby boomers now are faced with the reality that they need someone competent to help them manage their wealth and tell them how much money they have to have to spend the rest of their life and not worry about money ever again.
(24:03):
So once again, take that silo, Brian, of all the clients that CPA has and all those retirees, and just make sure that your planning solution answers the questions that they have. Then go to business owners. Another big trend right now is that the average CPA is around age 59, 60 years old, not too dissimilar than what we have in the financial planning community, but here's a great fact for our viewers to know. The average small business owner client of a typical CPA is also around age 60, and a large percent of them want to sell their business in the next five years. And so when we go into an accounting firm, that's the first place we go and look is take the hundreds of business owners they have, we want to carve them up. Who are the long-term businesses? Who does the CPA know needs to make a decision the next five or 10 years to sell?
(24:50):
But I think for your viewers, that is going to be amazing the amount of assets and financial planning opportunities for businesses looking to sell the next five or 10 years. And I think the last place to look is the changing estate tax code. The fact that more of our clients' wealth will be exposed to estate taxation. I think there's no surprise that a lot of wealthy individuals, be they high income, high net worth, feel that they're under attacked and the tax code will not work to their advantage going forward. So I think that's a capability as well that if you can blend the capability you have around tax planning with what the CPA firm has and approach those clients, it goes back to what I said earlier, the client will see you as a hero and more clients will come from that more referrals to the CPA firm into you.
(25:34):
And so I think when you put it all together, these changing economic environments, these changing tax environments, these are perfect for us. And here's a thought for you, Brian, in our hundred and 70 ish CPA firms, there's over 200,000 clients that are on our marketing databases. So let your mind wonder every single time there's a tax law change or the market drops, whatever percent, we're using our marketing expertise to just drip in front of people and say, Hey, if you don't feel comfortable right now, raise your hand. We are here. And so we've really built these marketing initiatives to make sure that at the right time, which could be a changing environment, a changing landscape for investments, changing tax codes, we just want to say, I want to make sure that we're getting our name in front of people at the right time on behalf of that accounting firm. And so to your earlier question, I think if there was a technology to really start to master, it's that technology that gets your name and the CPA's name in front of those potential clients in the best life possible.
Brian Wallheimer (26:35):
Sure. Paul, we're talking specifically about wealth management and accounting. Are there other partnerships that make sense here? Are there ways to expand on this model?
Paul Saganey (26:48):
Yeah, so we kind of do a hierarchy. So CPAs are always number one. You know, like it or not when it comes to that complexity curve, they are the most trusted advisor. I know I've had this debate with financial advisors in the past, but if you ask any business owner, anyone with a significant wealth that they're going to make a decision and a big decision, they're going to call their cpa. And so therefore you got to recognize that they're the number one at the top of the pyramid. Plus the fact that we get to with our partnership relationships go in and look at tax returns. So by looking at a hundred tax returns, we can begin to segment who are those six times 10 plus one potential clients. So I would put them at the very top and then I would make a big step down to say, estate planning attorneys.
(27:29):
They may not have the same relationship with their clients, but they certainly know the wealth of those clients and know if they've got their financial affairs put together. I've seen a lot of success too, Brian, with advisors who partner with property casualty firms, especially maybe PNC firms that maybe cater to the needs of more wealthier clients or maybe in geographic locations where people tend to have more net worth than other areas. It's the same model. We follow it no matter who we work with, but those, those are two audiences to go after as well. And to give you one other idea, Brian, if let's say I, I'm an advisor by the way. So when I coach our other advisors, when they go into an accounting firm, they want to get to know who are the other professionals the accountant deals with, who do they send their property casualty to and who do they send this or that to?
(28:18):
And then what we try to teach our advisors is take the relationships that the CPA has and build a network. In other words, don't just stop at the CPA, but find out who are the CPA's most trusted advisors that they refer their clients to. And then you can see what I'm doing here, kind of build a bit of a relationship amongst the entire circle. And so one very successful one, the CPA sends a lot of group insurance to a group health insurance team and PNC to a PNC team and they have a local estate planning law firm. So if you think about it, I use this the advisor of financial advisor and a CPA firm as like a fork and a bee's nest. Because what that CPA is saying is, please come into my home, look at my family and tell me where you can help them. And then I've got other members around the circle here on the capabilities team that if possible, please use them in your planning services as well. But as you can hear in this Brian, don't stop at the CPA. You can extend that network to three or four or five other people depending on who that CPA is and what their position is inside the community.
Brian Wallheimer (29:18):
Sure. Got a couple more from the audience here. I'll, I'll try to sneak in if we've got a moment still. And that is how do you see CPA firms growing their own wealth management firms growing going forward?
Paul Saganey (29:31):
I would say the opposite's happening. We're seeing accounting firms that have tried to build wealth management firms that are now either selling it or we're coming in and maybe beginning to run that wealth management division. To the person asking the question, you want to sit down and at the first meeting and really do a lot of due diligence. What's working with that enterprise they've built what isn't working, what's the turnover like? Are the clients coming back referring more accounting business to the accounting firm? Typically the answer will be no. And so I would look at it the other way. I would say we're having great success now. Our last two accounting firms were, one was a 45 partner firm, one was a 50 partner firm on the west coast. And so they both had wealth management divisions, but they were not meeting the expectations of the partners. And we came in the door showing what firms are smaller are able to do, and that gets their attention. And so I think don't be afraid when you see an accounting firm that's already offering wealth management services, dig deeper, understand what is the capability of the current team and maybe they can't handle the types of clients you want to get access to. So I wouldn't shy away from them. If anything, I would put those higher on your list to go and talk to.
Brian Wallheimer (30:40):
Sure, sure. Does someone from the accounting firm have to be a registered investment advisor to accept the revenue share?
Paul Saganey (30:48):
Depends on the state. If I'm speaking to an RIA on this call, they just have to be a solicitor for most states. I want to be careful here. Some states require the 65 license, but that would be it to be able to get revenue on the RIA side. If you're with say a hybrid or you're more broker dealer focused. Yeah. My understanding is I think every single state requires either a series seven or a series six to be able to share revenue. If you want to share broker dealer products, we run this as an RIA venture for us. It's really worked well for us and pretty much every product we need access to, we can get on the fee based side. So therefore it's been solicitors for us or maybe at the worst case getting a series 65 license.
Brian Wallheimer (31:30):
Sure. So I'm going to ask where would the client assets have to be held in order for the CPA to own the relationships?
Paul Saganey (31:38):
Great question. So the assets can be held wherever for us it's Schwab, it's, fidelity, LPL is one of our custodians as well, Pershing. So the assets can sit on whatever platform you want, but it's more of the contractual relationship. So maybe I should share with the viewers that every single relationship has a contract that you have to get signed before you go forward. Or believe it or not, the more successful you make the partnership, the more you run the risk of losing potential client or losing that particular firm. So these are contracts once again that are designed to protect the fact that the client is owned by the CPA, but the revenue is owned by you, the advisor, and therefore, you know, and I, we can all debate what does ownership of the client mean? But the CPA likes to know that we're never going to take their client and say, give them to another accounting firm or move them anywhere else. They want to be protected as far as that ownership is concerned, but it's the ownership of the revenue you want to pay particular attention to. You want to make sure you own whatever revenue you generate that's in your name, have the, in our world, the CPA owns the revenue that they have, then the contract stipulates that when the time is right, we'll buy that back from them at some point in the future.
Brian Wallheimer (32:48):
Sure, sure. And I think we've got one more here and it's are someone asked, are you giving us the tools and coaching to build a partnership with the CPA or matching us directly with the CPA or maybe both?
Paul Saganey (33:01):
No, we are our firm, we're, we're a large firm, so we've got a staff of 60 people. We we're at about a little over 16 billion dollars of assets. So we've got the size and scope to build. There's a couple things that go on here. It's kind of a long answer for you here, but there's a couple things. The first off is we typically work with an advisor as practice when they join us to help restructure the practice in such a way that we can free up that advisor's time to go after these opportunities with the CPA. Okay. So as your viewers are watching, our biggest challenge when we bring in successful advisors is they're just so busy doing what they're doing today. They can't find the time to chase these bigger opportunities. So step one is looking at your practice. We have a system we call the second chair program, which is what I do with my practice and how we build the second chair around what you have to free up your time to light, go chase those opportunities.
(33:55):
So we coach our advisors both to be better entrepreneurs. I use my background and my work with things like the strategic coach and other programs to coach our advisors on being better entrepreneurs. That helps them at some point be able to sell their practice for more money. Number two, we work with them as advisors. And so our financial advisors fall under one of two categories. One, they would like to get maybe better at working with wealthy and wealthier clients, so they would like to become part of what we call the integrated academy. It's a very in-depth detailed training program to help them get better at working with wealthier clients. Or the advisor may say something, I don't want to get better at that. Just bring in a team member, bring me in, someone that has a capability and I'll work jointly with them. So we'll pivot me the direction. So our training in the typical practice that are joining us, Brian, are already large, they're fairly successful, but they want our entrepreneurial coaching, our coaching around freeing up more of their time and then working with them as an advisor to either help them work with the clients they want to work with or help them maybe partner with other collaborators to help them bring the best job to the individual needs of the individual client.
Brian Wallheimer (35:02):
Sure. Paul, I want to thank you. Do you have any parting thoughts before we wrap up here?
Paul Saganey (35:09):
Yeah, I think for what it's worth, I think this is a wonderful time for the viewers here watching this. And I think people always ask, how do I find CPAs? And I always say they're sitting right near your clientele. So talk to your clients, get introduced. You may have to kiss a few frogs to find the right opportunity, but they're out there. And keep in mind that if you really focus on the challenges the accountant is facing, he or she, in other words, they're looking at retirement maybe in a handful of years, or maybe they want to be seen as a hero to their clients because they worry about losing their wealthier clients to other accounting firms that offer more services. So if you really lead with tapping into what is the need of the CPA, what do they want to get out of the program? I want to say this carefully, but don't worry about yourself. In other words, a lot of advisor are like, Hey, what can I get out of this? Or What's in it for me? If you change the tables and say what's in it for them? I promise you the next five and 10 years will be we're giving up for be the best years ever because of, as I mentioned earlier, changing tax code uncertainty on the markets and people just raising their hand looking for help all the time. It's an exciting period to be doing this.
Brian Wallheimer (36:16):
Sure. Well, Paul, I really appreciate you being on our forum today and sharing your time and your expertise with us. I want to thank our tech team for keeping us going here today. And thank everyone in the audience for listening and for participating. Thank you so much, and we'll see you soon,
Paul Saganey (36:34):
Brian. Thanks. Appreciate it.
